Opened 4 months ago

Last modified 2 months ago

#15311 new bug

[FirstBootPrompt] Remove flags, exchange for 2/3 letter language ISO

Reported by: mazbrili Owned by: stippi
Priority: normal Milestone: R1
Component: Applications/FirstBootPrompt Version:
Keywords: Cc:
Blocked By: Blocking:
Has a Patch: no Platform: All

Description (last modified by humdinger)

Originally reported by mazbrili:

when install haiku.. some flag is not shown (i check catalan and Indonesian at least not shown)

As PulkoMandy explained in the comments below (and Gerrit review1896, as languages don't map 1:1 to countries, FirstBootPrompt should use the 2/3 letter language ISO codes.

Attachments (1)

Capture.JPG (36.8 KB ) - added by mazbrili 4 months ago.

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Change History (12)

by mazbrili, 4 months ago

Attachment: Capture.JPG added

comment:1 by diver, 4 months ago

Component: - GeneralApplications/FirstBootPrompt
Description: modified (diff)
Milestone: UnscheduledR1/beta2
Owner: changed from nobody to stippi
Summary: not all flag show on haiku installation[FirstBootPrompt] missing Catalan and Indonesian flags

comment:2 by pulkomandy, 4 months ago

Using flags for languages is nonsense. There is no 1:1 mapping between language and countries. I vote for removing all the flags.

comment:3 by -Meanwhile-, 4 months ago

I agree. I suspect the flags were introduced mainly because they look so jolly and colorful but flags can also be a very sensitive thing, in that they may represent disputed areas/countries about which the opinions vary as to what their status is or should be. Even if you include only UN-represented countries in an effort to use some sort of a golden standard, you'll still insult a lot of people whose flags aren't represented or whose areas are then under the wrong flag. That's probably why professional operating systems like Windows and Mac OS avoid using flags.

comment:4 by KapiX, 4 months ago

I don't agree that flags are there just because they're colorful. They make it easier to grep the list for the language you are looking for (which works at least for the "big" languages, national pride issues aside). Therefore I don't think completely removing that indicator is a good idea. However, I think the flags can be successfully replaced by two/three-letter ISO codes (uppercased), even if some of them would appear multiple times (for example three "EN"s for US, GB and Canada variants). It's still easier to find the language you're looking for, while solving the issue of misrepresentation/misattribution.

comment:5 by pulkomandy, 4 months ago

Yes, ISO language codes would be fine, as they are not linked to a specific country: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes

in reply to:  4 comment:6 by -Meanwhile-, 4 months ago

Replying to KapiX: Therefore I don't think completely removing that indicator is a good idea.

So where do you want to keep them and where do you want to remove them?

Last edited 4 months ago by -Meanwhile- (previous) (diff)

comment:7 by -Meanwhile-, 4 months ago

For a quick and easy selection of your language the biggest help is the fact that for instance French isn't listed as 'French' but as 'Français', German is listed as 'Deutsch' and so on. If that wasn't the case then the flags would be a significant help, but in the present situation they can be missed for this reason alone already.

comment:8 by KapiX, 4 months ago

As I said, I want to REPLACE the flags with ISO codes. The issue is that without any other thing, the list is just a mess of letters and you need to really focus on what you're reading to find the item you're looking for. Icons (flags) are best, but don't fit here, so ISO codes (two or three uppercase letters) must suffice, and are still easier to scan through and pick up a code you're looking for, than just regular words.

I had the exact same problem of differentiating language entries efficiently while scrolling at Polyglot. I went with the flags (despite PulkoMandy's objections) because I couldn't think of anything better at that time, but to me having nothing was worse than having the flags, as flawed as they are.

EDIT: The point of this is to offload the search to visual matching (with something akin to icons) instead of reading (which is arguably harder to do).

Last edited 4 months ago by KapiX (previous) (diff)

comment:9 by humdinger, 4 months ago

EDIT: The point of this is to offload the search to visual matching (with something akin to icons) instead of reading (which is arguably harder to do).

I just wanted to say just that. I'm a quite visual person (yes, visually pleasing, too... :P) and I can pick a flag from a big list very quickly, faster that looking over some letters. Maybe ISO should be added instead of replacing the flags.

comment:10 by diver, 4 months ago

+1 to what humdinger said.

comment:11 by humdinger, 2 months ago

Description: modified (diff)
Milestone: R1/beta2R1
Summary: [FirstBootPrompt] missing Catalan and Indonesian flags[FirstBootPrompt] Remove flags, exchange for 2/3 letter language ISO
Version: R1/Development

The flags have to go, everything considered... (see changed ticket description)

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