cleanup printer prefrences / UI ehnacements.

[stargatefan]

cleanup the printer prefrences dialog box. Gutenprint supports all those printers AFAIK " I did check a few"

Remove those old legacy drivers since guetenprint most likely offers more funtionality anyways.

Also relabel the setup dialog to something most people understand.

USB, Network NOT LPR etc

etc etc etc.

If you want I can make a quick image illustrating what I think needs to be done.

[laplace]

Removal of native printer drivers

I am the first to remove them, however that needs an objective investigation of the pros and cons. Since I don't have a printer anymore that is supported by a native driver, I cannot do that. Until the results are available, at least I won't remove them.

For example the native drivers should be faster and at least for b/w printing the quality should be on par. The Gutenprint driver should offer more configuration options for fine tuning, but everything else is (almost) identical, as the native drivers and Gutenprint are based on the same (inofficial) Haiku printer driver framework (libprint).

Relabeling the setup dialog and changing of transport add-on names (USB, LPR)

Yes, please provide suggestions/illustrations. I wanted them for a long time.

BTW can you try not to indent the text in the description this way, it makes it hard to read and it doesn't make sense to me.

[stargatefan]

I will do so. Also the indent is a something with IE explorer. Sorry I will make sure to edit in the future with web+ or aurora.

As to the existing printer drivers. While its nice to call them native "they are ports IIRC" its just adding needless clutter and create confusion. Personally I would just simply make guetenprint the defualt driver. then have te user select the printer and put in the connection method, and whatever network prefrences need setup.

Removing uneeded clutter makes setup easier by presenting the user with less choices. One of the halmarks of BEOS. Keep it lean,mean and clean.

It bears repeating becuase its one of the reasons Linux can be so difficult. Windows gives one printer setup dialog. thats how haiku should be, although MS offering often have manufacturer specific setup and control dialogs, almost all MS compatable printers can be setup with a driver only mode from the native printer setup dialog.

This approach reduces fustration for the end user.

As to testing the native printers. No knock on the developers but guetenprint is worked on by the manufacturers. It likely has better and more full support. If there is a small performance penalty "1-5 seconds" its not worth fretting over.

Users comming from others Operating systems are likely to be fiarly blown away anyways and they expect slow lagging non responsive behavior. It simply isn't worth being concerned about from a useability perspective.

What is important is reducing clutter and making things appear to be easier. You could always hide the native drivers behind a advanced interface anyways "like other OS's"

I will wonderbrush some mockup tonight and post them here. They will look a bit rough.

[stargatefan]

still working on it. I should be able to finish over the weekend.

[laplace]

Replying to stargatefan:

still working on it. I should be able to finish over the weekend.

No need to hurry. I had several years to improve the UI, and can wait longer ;)

[stargatefan]

Ok here is a screen shot totalling 6 windows that must be opened to get the printer to actually print a document from the time you plug it in, till the time you actually print a image.

the rendering will be done tommorow, it'll be rough but it'll hopefully forward a idea of how to reduce this down to no more then 2 windows.

honestly its damn confusing to get a printer setup like this. to attract grandma, its gotta be simpler and more self explanatory.

[stargatefan]

OK the first of 2 ideas to float. I didn;t put alot of time into this but i represents the basic Idea I am trying to convey. I think with some bordering and a few tweaks it could be much easier to navigate, but It put all the print quality prefrences in one spot where they belong. This page should open autmatically when you click print. Also the text box on the bottom is supposed to be print preview, wonderbrush was being silly.

[laplace]

Replying to stargatefan:

As to the existing printer drivers. While its nice to call them native "they are ports IIRC" its just adding needless clutter and create confusion. Personally I would just simply make guetenprint the defualt driver. then have te user select the printer and put in the connection method, and whatever network prefrences need setup.

I don't know what you're talking about? I wrote the PCL5, PCL6 and PostScript driver from scratch using libprint! Admitted, I don't know where libprint originates from.

Removing uneeded clutter makes setup easier by presenting the user with less choices. One of the halmarks of BEOS. Keep it lean,mean and clean.

For printing BeOS is not a good example, as the Haiku printing system is identical to BeOS. With the exception that it allows you to select the printer before the page or job setup. BTW that dialog could be disabled.

It bears repeating becuase its one of the reasons Linux can be so difficult. Windows gives one printer setup dialog. thats how haiku should be, although MS offering often have manufacturer specific setup and control dialogs, almost all MS compatable printers can be setup with a driver only mode from the native printer setup dialog.

Agreed. Please keep in mind that the goal for Haiku R1 is/was to be feature complete with BeOS R5. And for the Haiku printing system that is already achieved (BTW for a long time already). So any improvements we are talking here will likely be implemented post R1.

Changing the contents of existing dialogs is what can be done pre R1. Actually I thought you had that in mind.

This approach reduces fustration for the end user.

As to testing the native printers. No knock on the developers but guetenprint is worked on by the manufacturers. It likely has better and more full support. If there is a small performance penalty "1-5 seconds" its not worth fretting over.

These are all speculations. When PCL6 was implemented I know of a user, IIRC who was more satisfied with the Haiku driver than the Linux solutions at that time. Again without investigation there is no point in arguing any further.

[stargatefan]

Replying to laplace:

I don't know what you're talking about? I wrote the PCL5, PCL6 and PostScript driver from scratch using libprint! Admitted, I don't know where libprint originates from.

hadn't browsed the source. I can't use any of those drivers. no HP printers.

For printing BeOS is not a good example, as the Haiku printing system is identical to BeOS. With the exception that it allows you to select the printer before the page or job setup. BTW that dialog could be disabled.

Most people like to be able to actively select the print preview when they are working on stuff that needsa print preview, pictures, graphics etc.

Agreed. Please keep in mind that the goal for Haiku R1 is/was to be feature complete with BeOS R5. And for the Haiku printing system that is already achieved (BTW for a long time already). So any improvements we are talking here will likely be implemented post R1.

this is one time where being the same is a bad thing. its a pain to print anything as you have to click through multiple windows to get anything to print.

Changing the contents of existing dialogs is what can be done pre R1. Actually I thought you had that in mind.

why not fix the mess thats there ? BEOS did alot of stuff right, the printing dialogs though. they are horriable. to many windows, to many options spread all about the place.

These are all speculations. When PCL6 was implemented I know of a user, IIRC who was more satisfied with the Haiku driver than the Linux solutions at that time. Again without investigation there is no point in arguing any further.

Its not hard to be better then linux at stuff. the question is can haiku be as good as other OS's out there.

[laplace]

Replying to stargatefan:

Replying to laplace:

I don't know what you're talking about? I wrote the PCL5, PCL6 and PostScript driver from scratch using libprint! Admitted, I don't know where libprint originates from.

hadn't browsed the source. I can't use any of those drivers. no HP printers.

Why did you then claim that they were ports and not native?

For printing BeOS is not a good example, as the Haiku printing system is identical to BeOS. With the exception that it allows you to select the printer before the page or job setup. BTW that dialog could be disabled.

Most people like to be able to actively select the print preview when they are working on stuff that needsa print preview, pictures, graphics etc.

Agreed. Please keep in mind that the goal for Haiku R1 is/was to be feature complete with BeOS R5. And for the Haiku printing system that is already achieved (BTW for a long time already). So any improvements we are talking here will likely be implemented post R1.

this is one time where being the same is a bad thing. its a pain to print anything as you have to click through multiple windows to get anything to print.

Changing the contents of existing dialogs is what can be done pre R1. Actually I thought you had that in mind.

why not fix the mess thats there ?

As I told you the "mess" that's there is because of historical reasons.
Why not fix it? That's simple because it needs developers to actually implement the stuff. I don't see anyone including myself who is going to do that! All claims, requests for change are just hot air, until someone implements them. That's how open source works driven by spare time developers.

BEOS did alot of stuff right, the printing dialogs though. they are horriable. to many windows, to many options spread all about the place.

These are all speculations. When PCL6 was implemented I know of a user, IIRC who was more satisfied with the Haiku driver than the Linux solutions at that time. Again without investigation there is no point in arguing any further.

Its not hard to be better then linux at stuff. the question is can haiku be as good as other OS's out there.

[stargatefan]

As I told you the "mess" that's there is because of historical reasons.
Why not fix it? That's simple because it needs developers to actually implement the stuff. I don't see anyone >including myself who is going to do that! All claims, requests for change are just hot air, until someone implements >them. That's how open source works driven by spare time developers.

So the plan is to keep a bad UI design, for some nostalgic purpose ?

Just to make sure I am clear.???

Would you prefer a bounty be started to compensate you for your time to change the UI. I for one would not be opposed to such a offer.

[laplace]

Replying to stargatefan:

As I told you the "mess" that's there is because of historical reasons.
Why not fix it? That's simple because it needs developers to actually implement the stuff. I don't see anyone >including myself who is going to do that! All claims, requests for change are just hot air, until someone implements >them. That's how open source works driven by spare time developers.

So the plan is to keep a bad UI design, for some nostalgic purpose ?

Nope. It is just the explanation for the status quo. I am for improving it, but I don't see me doing that in the near future (or at all; I simply don't know).

Just to make sure I am clear.???

Would you prefer a bounty be started to compensate you for your time to change the UI. I for one would not be opposed to such a offer.

You obviously have not followed the discussions on Haikuware and OSnews. The bounty system doesn't work for me. And also money cannot motivate me to work more for Haiku.

[stargatefan]

Well if money isn't your gig, maybe powdered chocolate doughnuts ? Groveling ? Just let me know.

[mmadia]

Replying to stargatefan:

Well if money isn't your gig, maybe powdered chocolate doughnuts ? Groveling ? Just let me know.

Please, let this go for now. To put it plainly, this behavior isn't desirable -- BugTrackerEtiquette

Later (and if someone doesn't beat me to it), this ticket could be mentioned on GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas ... who knows, maybe it and some other preflet redesigns could make a decent and worthwhile proposal.

[laplace]

Replying to mmadia:

Later (and if someone doesn't beat me to it), this ticket could be mentioned on GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas ... who knows, maybe it and some other preflet redesigns could make a decent and worthwhile proposal.

Sounds good.

IMHO proposals for the page setup and job setup dialogs for libprint based drivers (for instance Gutenprint), PDF Writer and Preview driver should have highest priority.